Forums - Omega Red's flaws? Show all 63 posts from this thread on one page Forums (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/index.php) - Fighting Game Discussion (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=8) -- Omega Red's flaws? (http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1244) Posted by on 03:16:2001 01:48 AM: Ya know...I really can't find any...and to me, he's a very strong character, yet somewhat underused. From a truly logical perspective, can any in depth MvsC2 player name his flaws? Strengths? He should be of a higher tier of strength, IMO. [This message has been edited by GeoG2 (edited 03-15-2001).] Posted by Hoe Muffin on 03:16:2001 02:10 AM: Flaws: Omega gets flat out mauled by Sentinel/B. Heart, a pretty common tourney team, so that's not a good thing. His ground coils (spike up from ground) and omega strike are AHVB. I think the biggest knock against Omega though is the fact that he really doesn't add anything to a team, like the rest of the top tier (Doom, Sentinel, Storm), and he doesn't really benefit that much from assists. His assists aren't all that good either. Posted by llllllllll on 03:16:2001 02:51 AM: omega, as well, as many others should be top tiers, im0. omega - great character, muffin, from your statements, it seems to me that you do not play/or rarely play omega. could disagree with few things you have stated: his assists is marvelous and easily thrown into comb0s if timed correctly, like many other assists. your "biggest knock" - "doesn't add anything to the team" - huh? he's quite a go0d battery, holding his own, his air dash, if utilized owns, and can be both and offensive(more of) and defensive. everone gets slaughtered by sentinal, few exceptions for pixie, if used right. ground coils have it pro's and con's. pro's like its reach and stops certain supers. con's would be leaves him open if hit is missed - basic, but any go0d red player, would follow this up with a retractable kick. most moves can be ahvb, so coin-toss if its disadvantage or not. im0, his supers lack power and are hard to comb0 unless guardbreak'ed but is a great way to link supers. Tagmonkey! Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 02:55 AM: Well lets start by saying i LOVE omega and play him all the time..granted i don't use him in tournaments but here is why (although i did use him in my last tournament and won with him so you figure it out lol) His omega strike can be AVHB after blocked and sentinel blackheart is NOT a problem for me hoe muffin Although his supers can deal lots of damage if done at the right times..it has poor start up but most of the time you can catch someone with it or an assit as it is a GREAT assit killer...but you asked for flaws not high points so allow me to continue lol He doesn't add anything to teams? Well i can actually agree with this one since his assit doesn't ADD anything but a chance at a combo..poor chip damage and lots of times hurts omega more then helps. BUT he can cover his assits and most people use him as a battery so half the time they start with him and can cover the assit as they are playing His coils are a great move in the air but unless you know you can call it back without getting hit or you know you are going to hit them...don't go fishing without teh proper bait lol I personaly give omega a 9 out of 10 Since he has tons more pros then cons IMO http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by SHuMA-GOWRATH on 03:16:2001 04:35 AM: tru he is a good character......there are just more characters who are better http://www.crosswinds.net/~uxc/prof/wolv2.jpg Posted by Hoe Muffin on 03:16:2001 05:46 AM: IHmm, let me clarify a couple of things. I don't think he's bad, and my personal experience is me getting raped by Sentinel/ B. heart . By not adding anything to the team, I mean that he doesn't have any easily exploitable tricks (Cable/Clops, Strider Doom, Blackheart Clops) that are abusable, closest I can think of is Doom O. Red, and cross overs. He's still one of the best batteries in the game, and is one of the few characters that can handle most of the situations in the game, from runaway to rushdown. I still am not a great fan of his assists, they have their uses, but again, they're not easily abuseable. Some people might not consider abuseability a "strength", but as far as ease of effectiveness--> ass kicking ratio, I feel its something you want to consider. Assists are an important part of the game... I mean, why does everyone use Cyclops and Psylocke? They're good at point, by they're not exactly storm or magneto. They have great assists. Geo asked for his weaknesses, and the fact that he CAN get AHVB after coils/strike IS a weakness. I mean, everyone has a move like this, but its still an important thing to remember. [This message has been edited by Hoe Muffin (edited 03-15-2001).] Posted by Clockw0rk on 03:16:2001 06:11 AM: Hmmm... llllll (or whatever)- his assists aren't "marvelous" at all. Anti-air has no priority and often gets stuffed before it comes out. Good for a Doom finger laser trap, but that's about it. Ground type sucks, a 1 hit version of Spiral gamma, and doesn't chip. Best would probably be throw type, but you have to be real sneaky in using it for people to fall for it. Good for showboat combos, anyway. Burrowing coils are AHVB-able. "but any go0d red player, would follow this up with a retractable kick"... well that's AHVB-able too, and if you try to delay it, you get AHVB-ed in between. With all the Cables you'll be fighting, that is a weakness. Syberninja- if he's so good, why don't you use him in tournaments? I don't get it. Omega indeed gets raped by Sent/BH. Because of super armor, burrowing coils don't do shit to him, and you probably won't be able to start any combos, unless you get lucky with a j. fierce. If you burrow coil XX O Strike, he can HSF in between, and often time you don't retract fast enough to block it. If Sent has meters, he can st. fierce XX drones + BH assist XX HSF repeat all day and Omega can't get out. Basically all Omega can do against Sentinel is try to pin him down with j. fierce alot (since Sent is so big) while using a chip assist. Random coils in the air, for the most part, suck. People who are sleeping will fall for it. Do it only unless they are recovering from some slow ass super, but even then he has better options. - Clockw0rk Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 06:51 AM: quote: Originally posted by Clockw0rk: Hmmm... llllll (or whatever)- his assists aren't "marvelous" at all. Anti-air has no priority and often gets stuffed before it comes out. Good for a Doom finger laser trap, but that's about it. Ground type sucks, a 1 hit version of Spiral gamma, and doesn't chip. Best would probably be throw type, but you have to be real sneaky in using it for people to fall for it. Good for showboat combos, anyway. Burrowing coils are AHVB-able. "but any go0d red player, would follow this up with a retractable kick"... well that's AHVB-able too, and if you try to delay it, you get AHVB-ed in between. With all the Cables you'll be fighting, that is a weakness. Syberninja- if he's so good, why don't you use him in tournaments? I don't get it. Omega indeed gets raped by Sent/BH. Because of super armor, burrowing coils don't do shit to him, and you probably won't be able to start any combos, unless you get lucky with a j. fierce. If you burrow coil XX O Strike, he can HSF in between, and often time you don't retract fast enough to block it. If Sent has meters, he can st. fierce XX drones + BH assist XX HSF repeat all day and Omega can't get out. Basically all Omega can do against Sentinel is try to pin him down with j. fierce alot (since Sent is so big) while using a chip assist. Random coils in the air, for the most part, suck. People who are sleeping will fall for it. Do it only unless they are recovering from some slow ass super, but even then he has better options. - Clockw0rk I do use him in tournys but about 90% of the time you always face cable in a tournament and omega vs cable is well known as a losing battle...I don't care how good you are no one plays a pefect game and one mistake with omega on cable (by habbit of omega strike) will cost you DEARLY and you know that As for sentinel/blackheart all i do is j. feirce i don't feel anything else is worth it..even more so if he is flying (pain in the arse) BUT you can block cancel into the C. smasher VERY ez with omega so even if he does fly cancel to block your j. feirce you can super him. As for blackhearts assit i have and probably always will have trouble with him...ground coils may stop him but as you said super armor with sentinel stops omega lol. BUT not to many sentinels stay on the ground if they can help it. I smart personw ould stay on the ground when fighting omega with him but i don't stay on the ground if i can help it. Lots of people say it is a losing battle for him and that makes him weak in fights due to the fact it takes to much work and to much effort to beat a team like that. I personaly enjoy the fight outside of tournaments but no matter how much confidence i have cable is a much better choice to fight that team ina tournament then omega...i hate to let omega down like that but when it comes down to it...you got to do what you got to do lol http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by Clockw0rk on 03:16:2001 07:08 AM: quote: Originally posted by SyberNinja: I do use him in tournys but about 90% of the time you always face cable in a tournament and omega vs cable is well known as a losing battle...I don't care how good you are no one plays a pefect game and one mistake with omega on cable (by habbit of omega strike) will cost you DEARLY and you know that It's well known as a losing battle? That's news to me... All you have to remember is what you can and can't do against Cable. Take control when he doesn't have meter, and always stay close. If any Cable v Omega matchup is a losing battle, it'd have to be Cable/Doom. quote: As for sentinel/blackheart all i do is j. feirce i don't feel anything else is worth it..even more so if he is flying (pain in the arse) BUT you can block cancel into the C. smasher VERY ez with omega so even if he does fly cancel to block your j. feirce you can super him. As for blackhearts assit i have and probably always will have trouble with him...ground coils may stop him but as you said super armor with sentinel stops omega lol. BUT not to many sentinels stay on the ground if they can help it. I smart personw ould stay on the ground when fighting omega with him but i don't stay on the ground if i can help it. Lots of people say it is a losing battle for him and that makes him weak in fights due to the fact it takes to much work and to much effort to beat a team like that. I personaly enjoy the fight outside of tournaments but no matter how much confidence i have cable is a much better choice to fight that team ina tournament then omega...i hate to let omega down like that but when it comes down to it...you got to do what you got to do lol Carbonadium Smasher is useless. The only time it's any good is if you have Storm 2nd(or some other DHC friendly super). Anytime you have a chance to land a C. Smasher, there's always a better option, IMO. It does crap damage anyway. Instead of C. Smashing someone, it'd be better to j. jab, j. strong XX coil, then using one of his numerous coil combo followups for more damage. That's just me, though. Edit: Actually, C. Smasher is good for DHCing Omega out, if you have a safe super to switch out into. Oops. - Clockw0rk [This message has been edited by Clockw0rk (edited 03-15-2001).] Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 07:12 AM: quote: Originally posted by Clockw0rk: It's well known as a losing battle? That's news to me... All you have to remember is what you can and can't do against Cable. Take control when he doesn't have meter, and always stay close. If any Cable v Omega matchup is a losing battle, it'd have to be Cable/Doom. quote: As for sentinel/blackheart all i do is j. feirce i don't feel anything else is worth it..even more so if he is flying (pain in the arse) BUT you can block cancel into the C. smasher VERY ez with omega so even if he does fly cancel to block your j. feirce you can super him. As for blackhearts assit i have and probably always will have trouble with him...ground coils may stop him but as you said super armor with sentinel stops omega lol. BUT not to many sentinels stay on the ground if they can help it. I smart personw ould stay on the ground when fighting omega with him but i don't stay on the ground if i can help it. Lots of people say it is a losing battle for him and that makes him weak in fights due to the fact it takes to much work and to much effort to beat a team like that. I personaly enjoy the fight outside of tournaments but no matter how much confidence i have cable is a much better choice to fight that team ina tournament then omega...i hate to let omega down like that but when it comes down to it...you got to do what you got to do lol Carbonadium Smasher is useless. The only time it's any good is if you have Storm 2nd(or some other DHC friendly super). Anytime you have a chance to land a C. Smasher, there's always a better option, IMO. It does crap damage anyway. Instead of C. Smashing someone, it'd be better to j. jab, j. strong XX coil, then using one of his numerous coil combo followups for more damage. That's just me, though. - Clockw0rk OH i sooo agree it is worthless in most options BUT you can NOT do jap launcher as a block cancel..although you can do just launcher into combo which does do more damage and alittle more risky to hit..but if you know you got it go for it..i go with the launcher more though. But recently i have been doing the c.smasher since people keep going ohhh and ahhhh when you block cancel into it. I guess i have been going for looks lately lol http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 07:36 AM: carbon' smasher is coooo. i put it in air combos with my OR/Strider/Doom team. =P Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 07:38 AM: quote: Originally posted by knives: carbon' smasher is coooo. i put it in air combos with my OR/Strider/Doom team. =P LOL thats funny thats my team and clock's as well...this team is getting around lol http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 07:41 AM: quote: Originally posted by SyberNinja: LOL thats funny thats my team and clock's as well...this team is getting around lol <IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif"> Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N serious?? that's cool i guess. i love that team, its so versatile... OR builds insane levels. strider always has 5 levels when he comes in.. unless i DHC'ed. i also play OR/Storm/Cyke. Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 07:52 AM: quote: Originally posted by knives: serious?? that's cool i guess. i love that team, its so versatile... OR builds insane levels. strider always has 5 levels when he comes in.. unless i DHC'ed. i also play OR/Storm/Cyke. If i change teams normaly omega isn't in it...don't ask me why lol http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 07:54 AM: quote: Originally posted by SyberNinja: If i change teams normaly omega isn't in it...don't ask me why lol <IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif"> Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N feh =P i've been playing OR since day one. i can't really have a team without him.. i know all kinds of tricks and crazy assist combos with him. =P Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 07:58 AM: quote: Originally posted by knives: feh =P i've been playing OR since day one. i can't really have a team without him.. i know all kinds of tricks and crazy assist combos with him. =P I have been playing Omega since MSFvsSF days and the only reason i don't use him in other teams is b.c i rarely switch teams if i switch lol...most of the time i switch doing randoms...thats the way to go now...randoms is soooo fun not knowing who you got OR what assit...can make or break you REAL fast! lol http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 08:04 AM: quote: Originally posted by SyberNinja: I have been playing Omega since MSFvsSF days and the only reason i don't use him in other teams is b.c i rarely switch teams if i switch lol...most of the time i switch doing randoms...thats the way to go now...randoms is soooo fun not knowing who you got OR what assit...can make or break you REAL fast! lol <IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif"> Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N i see, i see. i play random with my friends sometimes. i usually get pretty bad characters, but sometimes i get decent ones... but they dont work together. like ruby/storm/guile -___- Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:16:2001 08:20 AM: You want flaws? 1. Has only 1 good trap. It's quite good, but anyone who figures out a counter to it owns OR from that point on. Why, because... 2. He's too slow to rushdown. Which makes him extremely reliant on his trapping ability. 3. Cannot use HC meter well. 4. Sub-standard assists. 5. Sub-standard counters. 6. Loses to any runaway, for free. 7. No reliable attacks that hit above him, either on the ground or in the air. 8. Size, weight, fall speed makes combos very easy to do on him. 9. Without a very good AAA, he loses to rushdown for free. Not that I don't like OR, he was my favorite in MSF, and he has many fine points, but he really doesn't belong anywhere near the top tier. He's a one-trick character, even if it is a good trick. OK, I'm out. -DFA Posted by SyberNinja on 03:16:2001 08:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by knives: i see, i see. i play random with my friends sometimes. i usually get pretty bad characters, but sometimes i get decent ones... but they dont work together. like ruby/storm/guile -___- or people like roll/charlie/sonson http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 08:28 AM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove: You want flaws? 1. Has only 1 good trap. It's quite good, but anyone who figures out a counter to it owns OR from that point on. Why, because... 2. He's too slow to rushdown. Which makes him extremely reliant on his trapping ability. 3. Cannot use HC meter well. 4. Sub-standard assists. 5. Sub-standard counters. 6. Loses to any runaway, for free. 7. No reliable attacks that hit above him, either on the ground or in the air. 8. Size, weight, fall speed makes combos very easy to do on him. 9. Without a very good AAA, he loses to rushdown for free. Not that I don't like OR, he was my favorite in MSF, and he has many fine points, but he really doesn't belong anywhere near the top tier. He's a one-trick character, even if it is a good trick. OK, I'm out. -DFA 1. what trap? OR's not about traps .. 2. he's very veratile. air dash and fp + assist is good for simple lockdown on large characters. on smaller ones, assist + burrowing coil xx omega strike retracted. 3. he's not supposed to use supers, he's supposed to build them for other characters who use them well, like strider/doom, sent/bh, cable. 4. no argument. 5. counters to what? you mean variable counters? 632+assist? 6. bullshit... tell me who's runaway and i'll probably counter. 7. wtf? no one goes above OR, rh omega strike is too good. they always stay away. not many fight OR up close. 8. what combos? if the combo is any good it can be done on anyone... tempest combo, lightning storm combo, ahvb combo...etc.. no restrictions 9. so does anyone else?... Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 08:30 AM: quote: Originally posted by SyberNinja: or people like roll/charlie/sonson <IMG SRC="http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif"> Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N what! ....roll is dominator! hehe Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:16:2001 09:35 AM: quote: 1. what trap? OR's not about traps .. Burrowing coil, assist, retracted strike, etc. You can call it whatever you want. I call it a pressure trap. Once you figure out how to counter it (which is, granted, difficult), you own Omega. quote: 2. he's very veratile. air dash and fp + assist is good for simple lockdown on large characters. on smaller ones, assist + burrowing coil xx omega strike retracted. That is not a rushdown offense. That is the same trap (or whatever you wish to call it), addressed in #1. Rushdown involves a lot of speed, which OR does not have. quote: He's not supposed to use supers, he's supposed to build them for other characters who use them well, like strider/doom, sent/bh, cable. Agreed. But it's still a weakness. Especially if you get snapbacked somewhere along the way, and you end up fighting in the wrong order. quote: 5. counters to what? you mean variable counters? 632+assist? Yes, that's what I mean. None of them counter any fast multihitting attacks, making it impossible to break out of lockdowns with his counter. quote: 6. bullshit... tell me who's runaway and i'll probably counter. Storm, off the screen, vertical typhoons. Dhalsim, off the screen, teleports. Blackheart, demons, dash, demons, land, assist, repeat. Hell, even Anakaris dropping coffins will give OR problems (well, that one won't be for free, but the rest are) Without Capcom/BH assist, OR dies slowly to a medium size lead. quote: 7. wtf? no one goes above OR, rh omega strike is too good. they always stay away. not many fight OR up close. Are you kidding? It's slow, and it's not invulnerable. The range is too narrow to stop cross-ups, and doing it means that you have to stop using your basic pressure pattern, which gives me back control of the match. Unless I tried to super-jump in on you, I don't see it as much good. And, BTW, I always play (against) Omega up close. What does he have that will stop me from doing so? He used to have jumping Strong, but now I can pretty much jump at him with impunity. quote: 8. what combos? if the combo is any good it can be done on anyone... tempest combo, lightning storm combo, ahvb combo...etc.. no restrictions I think you misunderstand. It's not that there are special combos, it's just that ordinary juggles are EASIER to do on him. He's wider than the average character, and he falls at a normal speed when in hitstun. Do a few cycles of any infinite on him, then on Psylocke, and you'll see the difference. quote: 9. so does anyone else?... Uhhh...no. Fast characters have an easier time escaping the pressure. Many characters have attacks that hit behind, or on both sides of them (Sent's drones, Doom's crouching hp). Others have moves that cause them to move in odd, safe ways (Felicia's Delta Kick, BH's dash). But, what OR really lacks is a way to avoid losing control of a match. All the top tier characters have a move, that, when the match comes to a turning point, they can do to re-establish control. I don't know of a safe one for OR. Enlighten me. Playing Devil's Advocate, -DFA Posted by Nate X Grey on 03:16:2001 10:23 AM: How did I miss this thread for so long?! Anyway, Omega Red's pros outweigh his cons by a fucking lot. First things first. My Omega Red team is Omega/Storm/CapCom. That pretty much takes away the vulnerability of coils to Omega strikes. Using Storm's winds and strikes all over the place to get in close for TONS of crossup options(diagonal strike, horizontal strike, air dash, air dash drops etc etc), Omega can simply get combos in there and rape just about anyone. And since he builds meter like a nutcase, you can pretty much throw out your air super whenever you meet someone in sj height or whatever and if he tries to hit you, you'll outprioritize him. I don't do his Omega Destroyer unless I see a clear cut chance. His air super is also good if you really want to get around. Just use it as a form of transport. Sure, its a waste of meter, but hey, Ruby Heart does it too! He has INFINITE air dashes in sj height and that's always a good thing(dash XX coil XX dash XX coil etc etc). Whenever my opponent's point character is low on life and he calls his helper while I'm in sj, I can just do cs XX hail. So you're pretty much not safe from anywhere at all facing Omega/Storm. You want abusable? Use Omega/Storm. Try that team a few times and you non-believers may just be surprised at how well Omega Red can be used. And oh yeah, I can't beat Cable/CapCom with Omega... so... well... I can beat almost any other team so I guess it kinda evens out. DefiNATEly NOT Cable... Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:16:2001 01:14 PM: Xman: Awesome team, I agree. a-Storm and Capcom-AAA are the two assists that work the best for Omega. They take away the two main weaknesses of Omega's pressure offense. A-Storm all but stops the possibility of quick retaliation counter-attacks on the ground, and Capcom assist neutralizes his weaknesses to runaway, and air based offenses. Capcom assist also stops rushdown. The only possible weakness is if Omega gets trapped early on, and can't build meter. Any tips on getting Omega out of the common traps? Oh, and BTW, I know Omega is one of the better chars in the game. I like him, even if my previous posts don't sound like it. OK, I'm out. -DFA Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:16:2001 01:32 PM: A question for you Omega experts out there: In MSF, if you did a team super, with your back to the corner, and your teammates super had a vacuum effect, the Omega Destroyer would do extra hits and damage. Does this still work in MvC2? Posted by Clockw0rk on 03:16:2001 02:01 PM: I'm posting too much today quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove: You want flaws? 1. Has only 1 good trap. It's quite good, but anyone who figures out a counter to it owns OR from that point on. Why, because... Like knives said, OR isn't about traps. That technique is good for free damage, but your game shouldn't revolve around it. quote: 2. He's too slow to rushdown. Which makes him extremely reliant on his trapping ability. That is so wrong it's not even funny. Omega is perfect for rushing down. Though his dash is slow, his diagnol O strike more than makes up for that. The fact that you can cancel it in midair is what makes this move optimal for rushdown. Think of it like this- while Magneto uses air dashes (triangle jumping) to rush down, Omega uses the diagnol O strike to rush (it's quick, and striking and super jumping should be your method of getting around), so basically its like a dash that attacks. Get what I mean? And since he can attack immediately once it's cancelled, Omega on your ass can be hard to get away from. Lastly, diagnol O strike point blank makes for a quick cross up. Adding all that crap with assists, and Omega certaintly CAN rushdown. A different style of rushdown, but saying he's too slow to rushdown means you haven't seen any good Omega players. quote: 3. Cannot use HC meter well. He's a battery- he's not supposed to. On a Spiral/Cable team, Spiral usually doesn't waste meters with her sword super or metamorphisis, because Cable makes better use of them. Same goes for Omega. quote: 4. Sub-standard assists. Aside from tricky throw type techniques, Omega does have sorry assists. Omega should always be first to fight. quote: 5. Sub-standard counters. Omega can counter most traps/lockdowns. Doom/BH doesn't work, Omega gets a free horizontal strike during Doom's j. fierce, and burrowing coils can keep BH AAA out. He also easily avoids photons by striking to the other side. Omega has ways of getting out of Spiral traps. He can duck under some swords, or burrowing coil. Omega can't counter Strider/Doom so to speak, but he can keep Strider from getting it started. Burrowing coils knock Doom AAA off the screen, and strikes can keep Strider at bay, wether he teleports, or double jumps. Burrowing coils also keep cats out. If Strider isn't careful, he dies quickly since it only takes a couple strikes to kill him. Err, Sent/BH lockdown kills Omega though. quote: Storm, off the screen, vertical typhoons. Omega easily catches Storm. If she tries to typhoon in the air, that's an easy sj. jab XX coil, or sj. coil up/uf. If Storm is just running with fierces, she has to limit the times she does them lest she be coiled out of the sky. quote: Dhalsim, off the screen, teleports. Can't say anything about this one, cause I'm yet to see someone play Sim runaway. quote: Blackheart, demons, dash, demons, land, assist, repeat. As long as Omega super jumps with BH, he gets a free sj. jab, sj. strong, coil. quote: 7. No reliable attacks that hit above him, either on the ground or in the air. That's what the vertical versions of strike and coil are for. Vertical/diagnol strike on the ground for anti air (keeps Mag out clean), super jump vertical coil in the air for Storm run away. quote: Size, Omega has one of (if not the) lowest duck in the game (he ducks under Sonic Booms). Certain characters rushdowns are harder to do on Omega. Triangle jumping Omega is also more difficult, since often times you can only land one air hit on him while he's ducking. quote: weight, fall speed makes combos very easy to do on him. Falling faster makes some combos harder to do. That's why you can't lightning attack XX lightning super on Doom/Sent, or do those long air chains with Mag on BH without having to change the hits. I'm not sure if Omega falls drastically faster than everybody else like Doom/Sent/BH do, but I haven't seen any only-works-on-Omega combos yet. quote: 9. Without a very good AAA, he loses to rushdown for free. Omega doesn't need anti air. That third spot on your team is better suited for an assist that helps Omega's rushdown (i.e. Doom AAA or Sent drones). Vert/horiz strikes keep rushing Storm/Mag/Strider out and burrowing coil XX strike keeps them at bay. When in close, his jab is quick and has high priority (similar to Doom's jab), and it leads to either jab, launcher or a ground chain ending with a strike, which takes a shitload. His j. jab also has reach and priority. If he's getting triangle jumped by Mag (one of the more potent rushdowns), he can easily jump up and jab, strong XX coil him, or j. fierce to stuff his straight air dash. - Clockw0rk Posted by knives on 03:16:2001 04:31 PM: good counters Clockw0rk...saved me some typing. so you play OR/Stider/Doom too? try this combo.. s.jab,s.strong + call strider gamma, sj.jab, sj.short, sj.strong, sj.roundhouse, opponent get hits by bird and at the moment of impact do carbon' smasher. =P looks pretty cool. i dont think there are any serious restrictons, i only tested on cyke - sent. Posted by DeathFromAbove on 03:16:2001 11:36 PM: Clockw0rk, thanks for the detailed response: quote: Omega is perfect for rushing down. Though his dash is slow, his diagnol O strike more than makes up for that. The fact that you can cancel it in midair is what makes this move optimal for rushdown. Think of it like this- while Magneto uses air dashes (triangle jumping) to rush down, Omega uses the diagnol O strike to rush (it's quick, and striking and super jumping should be your method of getting around), so basically its like a dash that attacks. Get what I mean? And since he can attack immediately once it's cancelled, Omega on your ass can be hard to get away from. Lastly, diagnol O strike point blank makes for a quick cross up. Adding all that crap with assists, and Omega certaintly CAN rushdown. A different style of rushdown, but saying he's too slow to rushdown means you haven't seen any good Omega players. This IS different from what I've seen. I've mostly seen rushdown attempted using horizontal strikes. I'll try this. One question: do you call a projectile assist before the diagonal strike? Otherwise, won't it be punished? quote: Omega doesn't need anti air. That third spot on your team is better suited for an assist that helps Omega's rushdown (i.e. Doom AAA or Sent drones). Vert/horiz strikes keep rushing Storm/Mag/Strider out and burrowing coil XX strike keeps them at bay. I totally disagree with you on this. All these rushdown stopping techniques rely on preemptive measures. They are initially useful, but easily adapted to. I don't think Omega without a AAA stands any chance against serious rushdown. quote: If he's getting triangle jumped by Mag (one of the more potent rushdowns), he can easily jump up and jab, strong XX coil him, or j. fierce to stuff his straight air dash.. I'm having difficulty picturing how this works. How does this beat out either Mags foot, or potentially, the assist he called before doing the triangle jump? Would you mind further explaining, you obviously know something I don't. Thanks for the help, -DFA [This message has been edited by DeathFromAbove (edited 03-16-2001).] Posted by on 03:16:2001 11:56 PM: Damn.....no joke. I have alot of stuff to take note of and study... ------------------------------------------------------------ http://kof5.tripod.com/geologo.png Custom Tag ID: "Blue Dawn" Last Updated: March 14th Tae Kwon Do...learn the basics! Posted by Clockw0rk on 03:17:2001 04:23 AM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove: This IS different from what I've seen. I've mostly seen rushdown attempted using horizontal strikes. I'll try this. One question: do you call a projectile assist before the diagonal strike? Otherwise, won't it be punished? If you're going to add assists in the attack, make sure you strike to the other side, so that your assist is safe. quote: I totally disagree with you on this. All these rushdown stopping techniques rely on preemptive measures. They are initially useful, but easily adapted to. I don't think Omega without a AAA stands any chance against serious rushdown. Well, I'm not going to play theoretical fighter here. What works for me works for me, same goes for everyone else. quote: I'm having difficulty picturing how this works. How does this beat out either Mags foot, or potentially, the assist he called before doing the triangle jump? Would you mind further explaining, you obviously know something I don't. Well here's how I see it. First Mag calls out Psylocke and sees if you fall for it. If you block it, blockstun holds you in place long enough so he can swarm you (good Mag players do this way too fast). The swarm consists of 1) a super jump 2) an air dash down 3) j short, j forward, or a single j rh. If you jump up and jab with Omega, the jab comes out the instant you leave the ground, nailing Mag during the first 2 phases of the swarm. Again, this is theoretical fighting, which I think is retarded. See what works for you, and don't let people tell you how to play. There's only so much you can learn from text. - Clockw0rk Posted by Nate X Grey on 03:17:2001 08:07 AM: Clockw0rk must be like godly then! I personally can't handle my friend's Magneto without an AAA. That's why I either have Cammy or CapCom with my Omega. And about the diagonal strikes. You can do a simple blocked chain into an assist and diagonal strike over. This gives you the options of a)Cancelling and dropping fast for a low attack without a crossup. b)cancelling at the other side for a crossup. c)cancelling at the other side and air dashing back to the initial side for a double crossup. Throw in the high and low attacks and tell me now Omega cannot rushdown. His sj XX air dash isn't useless either. Sure, its not Magneto like, but its still confusing as hell because of the ability to cancel it. DefiNATEly NOT Cable... Posted by SyberNinja on 03:17:2001 08:48 AM: I agree clock has a great omega from the way he talks lol i can't type a good omega to save my life but damn it i can play one lol I know clock has mad skills though just from the way he types he KNOWS what he is talking about there isn't anything i can say anymore since everything i would have said would have been the same as clocks with a few changes...but since it never sounds right when i type it i will just add my little thoughts on this when people comment on it..expect videos from me in the near future screw the typing crap lol http://members.aol.com/sybersaiyan/myhomepage/guy-by-evilkak.gif Don't run from me...you will just die tired...§N Posted by Clockw0rk on 04:19:2001 02:10 PM: bumped by request =] Edit - besides, Omega discussion is always funstuff Posted by SyberNinja on 04:20:2001 04:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by Clockw0rk bumped by request =] Edit - besides, Omega discussion is always funstuff I agree i enjoy reading your responses since i can't freaking type them you do a BEYOND great job of explaining it..by the way screw the trying to get my vids online without that camera crap if youw ant a vid of how the people play around here (and my omega/strider/doom) i will send you a tape free of charge lol ;et me know if your interested Posted by Dynamyte2U on 04:20:2001 04:43 AM: llllllll, Omega Red? First Tier? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA. Posted by SyberNinja on 04:20:2001 04:55 AM: quote: Originally posted by Dynamyte2U llllllll, Omega Red? First Tier? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA. he can take iron man lol and slim heh Posted by DrewSpiegel on 04:20:2001 05:18 AM: Crouch Fierce is all I have to say. I dunno, today I had a breakthrough with Omega Red. All the guys at school are a bunch of Mag/Sent/Bh/Cyclops(AAA) bitches, and I was fuggin stuffing their asses with that single button. The rush down was even more severe. Bitches were lucky I couldn't do the coil grab today. It was hella funny because I just used Strider as a clean up character today. Omega Red/Strider/Doom are win. Hey Clock, you were at the Folsom tourney right? You were the filipino guy with black rimmed glasses? Well it has to be you, because I saw your Omega Red/Strider/Doom. You were takin' choiboy to the house man! And you landed quite a few of those throw assists into a Strider air combos. You sir, was my inspiration to learn how to play an OR. You own Posted by SyberNinja on 04:20:2001 05:25 AM: quote: Originally posted by DrewSpiegel Crouch Fierce is all I have to say. I dunno, today I had a breakthrough with Omega Red. All the guys at school are a bunch of Mag/Sent/Bh/Cyclops(AAA) bitches, and I was fuggin stuffing their asses with that single button. The rush down was even more severe. Bitches were lucky I couldn't do the coil grab today. It was hella funny because I just used Strider as a clean up character today. Omega Red/Strider/Doom are win. The team of teams is getting to popular..i have to find a new one now lol..NAH never going to happen..just fun teams but strider/doom/omega for life!!!!! heh to think this team has been around forever and only me and clock and a select few others new how tough they were..it's nice to see people who se ethe light welcome peeps lol Posted by DrewSpiegel on 04:20:2001 05:33 AM: Haha, you know it man! But just to say this, there aren't many people who play Strider/Doom in tourneys, and I think you and Clockw0rk are the only two guys who do play them. There aren't that many Strider playas no mo'. They left to go become ghostbusters. Posted by ShadyK on 04:20:2001 05:35 AM: DeathFromAbove: Okay, if Omega Red isn't as good as you think he is, why don't you come down to SHGL and play me or Clockw0rk for money? Clockw0rk will use his Omega/Strider/Doom team and I'll use my Omega/Cable/Sentinel team. Both teams revolve around Omega building 5 supers ASAP and letting the other two characters do their thing. Clock's countered all your cons about Omega Red and you're still arguing saying WRONG things like - Omega Red can't handle a serious rush down. Omega Red will kick Magneto's ass any day of the week with O. Strikes... and add in Sent drones into the mix and you get some serious damage. Personally, I don't give a shit about tiers because it's a different situation for every team you put him in. Clock's team revolves around Strider and not Omega. Omega's just Clock's choice of battery and OR's the fastest battery in the game IMO. The only con I can think of when playing Omega is a starting Cable/Commando team and Viscant-style Doom. Anyway, if Clock and I are placing top 10 consistently at SHGL tournaments with Omega Red, maybe we KNOW what we're talking about. Posted by SyberNinja on 04:20:2001 05:36 AM: quote: Originally posted by DrewSpiegel Haha, you know it man! But just to say this, there aren't many people who play Strider/Doom in tourneys, and I think you and Clockw0rk are the only two guys who do play them. There aren't that many Strider playas no mo'. They left to go become ghostbusters. LOL people think strider/doom is old news....but me and lock are here to tell them that this is NOT true lol when i FINALLY get my stuff up here i will show everyone to fear this team..hell i will show everyone at ECC6 hehehe not talking trash i never said i will sin..but people will see that ther are by far not a scrub team Posted by DeathFromAbove on 04:20:2001 06:37 AM: Uhhh...no. Although I like to think that I'm good at this game, I know when I'm outmatched. I'd lose to superior execution...which wouldn't prove much of anything about Omega. Betcha I'd put up a good fight, though. And ease up, wouldya? This thread asked for OR's weaknesses, so I listed them out as I saw them. Then Clockw0rk came in and explained how to counteract most of them. And, being somewhat skeptical, I asked him to elaborate on the points. That way I learn. So, yeah, I was wrong about most of that stuff. Though, I still disagree about Omega owning rush characters. That's something I'll have to see. In my experience, he's at a disadvantage...and without the AAA...I don't think he can take control away from the pixies. I'm not psychic enough, I guess... -DFA Posted by SyberNinja on 04:20:2001 07:00 AM: quote: Originally posted by DeathFromAbove Uhhh...no. Although I like to think that I'm good at this game, I know when I'm outmatched. I'd lose to superior execution...which wouldn't prove much of anything about Omega. Betcha I'd put up a good fight, though. And ease up, wouldya? This thread asked for OR's weaknesses, so I listed them out as I saw them. Then Clockw0rk came in and explained how to counteract most of them. And, being somewhat skeptical, I asked him to elaborate on the points. That way I learn. So, yeah, I was wrong about most of that stuff. Though, I still disagree about Omega owning rush characters. That's something I'll have to see. In my experience, he's at a disadvantage...and without the AAA...I don't think he can take control away from the pixies. I'm not psychic enough, I guess... -DFA it's all good if you haven't seen omega played by the right people you wont see him own alot of stuff..he isn't an ez char to master let alone take out most of the top tiers...he isn't the best in the game but i would like ot think he is hehe Posted by Clockw0rk on 04:20:2001 10:06 AM: quote: Originally posted by DrewSpiegel Hey Clock, you were at the Folsom tourney right? You were the filipino guy with black rimmed glasses? Well it has to be you, because I saw your Omega Red/Strider/Doom. You were takin' choiboy to the house man! And you landed quite a few of those throw assists into a Strider air combos. You sir, was my inspiration to learn how to play an OR. You own Yah that was prolly me. Folsom tourney was pretty coool... but considering how much $$$ I spent and BS I went through (just to even go) to perform as badly as I did was pretty not cool. I couldn't get used to the sticks fast enough, so the diagnols on the sticks were pretty non-existant to me. In all the matches I lost, it was either me 1) launching, then jumping straight up, missing the aircombo (bout 5 times), 2) getting a clean opening, then jumping up trying to dash forward, or 3) Ragnarok/Wall Climb trap. Not to belittle the people I lost to (Choi, DoCBoM), of course I lost fair and square. But I think I shoulda put up more of a fight than I did. =[ Now I just look at it as a learning experience, one that costed a shitload of money, heh. Posted by ShadyK on 04:20:2001 12:26 PM: I told your ass not to go. But you didn't listen. Posted by DrewSpiegel on 04:20:2001 03:27 PM: You're still my hero! Anyways, I wanted to ask you some stuff at the tourney about some new strider combos, you had this one that you ended on a lp into a excalibur. Was that at the end of a double jump combo? And how do you always connect the qcf+pp on the OR air combo? Thank you and good day. Posted by Chapel on 04:20:2001 06:10 PM: quote: Originally posted by ShadyK DeathFromAbove: Okay, if Omega Red isn't as good as you think he is, why don't you come down to SHGL and play me or Clockw0rk for money? Clockw0rk will use his Omega/Strider/Doom team and I'll use my Omega/Cable/Sentinel team. Both teams revolve around Omega building 5 supers ASAP and letting the other two characters do their thing. Clock's countered all your cons about Omega Red and you're still arguing saying WRONG things like - Omega Red can't handle a serious rush down. Omega Red will kick Magneto's ass any day of the week with O. Strikes... and add in Sent drones into the mix and you get some serious damage. Personally, I don't give a shit about tiers because it's a different situation for every team you put him in. Clock's team revolves around Strider and not Omega. Omega's just Clock's choice of battery and OR's the fastest battery in the game IMO. The only con I can think of when playing Omega is a starting Cable/Commando team and Viscant-style Doom. Anyway, if Clock and I are placing top 10 consistently at SHGL tournaments with Omega Red, maybe we KNOW what we're talking about. Dear lord...work has made you bitter bro. Chill out! And you see someone stealin my OR/Storm/Capcom team?!? What's up with that! Oh, and Clock does know what he's talkin about. OR rushdown is crazy because it is unlike any other rushdown in the game. It's all vertical strike cancels and assists, crossups and confusion that even veteran OR fighters can get tangled up in. Really, the one thing that hurts OR is AAA and BH/Sent trap. Shady, I got a quick question for ya too. What's up with State? I went there the other day and all their machines were sitting outside... Posted by DavestA on 04:20:2001 06:18 PM: dam i find it very hard for anyone to be good with omega red... every1 i have played at arcade's that chose him are newbz Posted by DarthSalamander on 04:20:2001 06:29 PM: quote: Originally posted by ShadyK DeathFromAbove: Okay, if Omega Red isn't as good as you think he is, why don't you come down to SHGL and play me or Clockw0rk for money? Clockw0rk will use his Omega/Strider/Doom team and I'll use my Omega/Cable/Sentinel team. Both teams revolve around Omega building 5 supers ASAP and letting the other two characters do their thing. Clock's countered all your cons about Omega Red and you're still arguing saying WRONG things like - Omega Red can't handle a serious rush down. Omega Red will kick Magneto's ass any day of the week with O. Strikes... and add in Sent drones into the mix and you get some serious damage. Personally, I don't give a shit about tiers because it's a different situation for every team you put him in. Clock's team revolves around Strider and not Omega. Omega's just Clock's choice of battery and OR's the fastest battery in the game IMO. The only con I can think of when playing Omega is a starting Cable/Commando team and Viscant-style Doom. Anyway, if Clock and I are placing top 10 consistently at SHGL tournaments with Omega Red, maybe we KNOW what we're talking about. What is Viscant-style Doom? Posted by Omega Red Guru on 04:20:2001 07:41 PM: Omega runs this got damn game, I'm living proof of it. Posted by ShadyK on 04:20:2001 11:38 PM: Sup Chapel... Haha.. nah work is KICKback... so I'm not really stressin' from that.. I just wanted to clear up some things about Omega Red that's all.. hehe... so uhh. my bad DeathFromAbove, I just don't like it when people who don't know alot about something, talk about it like they do.. Just listen to Clockw0rk and believe when he talks about Omega Red. Anyway, Aztec closed down... boo. Tong has nowhere to practice now and Matt is out of a job I'm guessing. You should come down to Nickel more often, Chap. They fixed both machines and they both work fine now... fun. We're gonna have a tournament after they remodel Nickel City also... yeah.. hopefully Nickel gets BIGGER than it is. Whoever asked what's Viscant-style Doom: I don't even know myself. It's just very consistent and tricky. He plays with your mind.. he pretends to runaway and shoot photons, but all of a sudden he's all in your face rushing you down, then he changes his plan again and then does instant photons and 80% of his matches, he'll catch you in it as well as your assist and then hailstorm... Ouch. Posted by Omega Red Guru on 04:20:2001 11:52 PM: He Clockwork what Omega teams do you use?? I would suggest using my Omega/Anakaris/Iceman or Omega/Iron/Iceman teams Try using Ironmans AAA you can air combo this or short ground coil diagnol back Fk, into retractable kick!!! Also you can use OMega Red's Throw Assist in an anakaris combo, and Mummy Wrap them before they can even hit the ground. It's unblockable and unavoidable!!! Omega Wroks best with Anakaris-Omegas throw assist works for him Storm-keeps runaway players from controlling you, helps his rushdown. Capcom-keeps rushdowns off his back Venom work together for lots of reasons Doom same here Strider he's strider Ironman anti air type Iceman projectle type, works against rushdowns Megaman just a good combination Any other OMega experts, know any other good teams to build around this guy.??? All of my teams usually work around these characters Posted by ShadyK on 04:21:2001 02:54 AM: Hahahaha.. i like it how people pretend to act like they know what they're talking about... Omega/Anakaris! LMAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOO I mean I'd understand using Omega first and using Anakaris' throw assist after an Omega ground chain.. but Omega throw assist helps Anakaris? HAHAAHAHAH!!!!!!! Omega/Anakaris INDEED! Posted by Omega Red Guru on 04:21:2001 03:28 AM: Ahhh... do you think this is a joke? Do you think I'm a joke? You MY FRIEND are a fool!!!!! You are the only one laughing. I wonder why?? Maybe because everyone else has played this game before and can relate. P.S. I'm assuming you think Anakaris is a scrub? Posted by Clockw0rk on 04:21:2001 01:08 PM: quote: Originally posted by Omega Red Guru Ahhh... do you think this is a joke? Do you think I'm a joke? You MY FRIEND are a fool!!!!! You are the only one laughing. I wonder why?? Maybe because everyone else has played this game before and can relate. P.S. I'm assuming you think Anakaris is a scrub? Sorry man, but alot of that stuff you listed IS kinda wak, heh. It's best to have Omega be battery for your teams, not have your teams revolve around Omega. Luckily, the assists for duos like Cable/Sent, Cable/Cyke, and Strider or Storm/Doom work well for Omega. Therefore, Omega is ideal for teams like that. -Clockw0rk btw... ShadyK is pretty scawwie online, eh? =] Posted by Clockw0rk on 04:21:2001 01:55 PM: quote: Originally posted by DrewSpiegel You're still my hero! Anyways, I wanted to ask you some stuff at the tourney about some new strider combos, you had this one that you ended on a lp into a excalibur. Was that at the end of a double jump combo? And how do you always connect the qcf+pp on the OR air combo? Thank you and good day. The most damaging non airthrow non meter resetter air chain is probably jab strong forward XX rocket up. Double jump combos are only good for playing to the crowd and possibly meter building. They do = or less damage than his regular air combos. As for the Omega thing, do you mean the coil? In the regular Omega coil combo (jab short strong), qcf+kk will always connect. Aside from that, you just have to have a quick eye to determine what direction coil to use (like if you get them in the air at a weird angle or something). -Clockw0rk Posted by ELLwarriors on 04:21:2001 05:16 PM: quote: Originally posted by Omega Red Guru Ahhh... do you think this is a joke? Do you think I'm a joke? You MY FRIEND are a fool!!!!! You are the only one laughing. I wonder why?? Maybe because everyone else has played this game before and can relate. P.S. I'm assuming you think Anakaris is a scrub? Ok. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! See? I'm laughing too. I mean come on. anakaris and omega? I'm no omega expert, but I know what assists work well with him, and I must say that sentinel's drones work pretty damn good with him. You, my friend, are the fool. And until Omega/anakaris destroys my entire team, then I'll agree with you. BTW, anakaris isn't a scrub. i've lost my entire team to anakaris once before. He's good, but there's just too many things that'll destroy that anakaris/omega, naimly sentinel/bh. Posted by DrewSpiegel on 04:21:2001 07:15 PM: Hey thanks Clockw0rk, last night Omega Blue showed me this crazy one that I think went like, jab/short/strong/forward--jab/short upwards coil grab. Something like that. Can't remember exactly... Posted by *Magneto* on 04:21:2001 07:20 PM: he doesn't do enough damage. Posted by ShoFunaki on 04:22:2001 02:19 AM: You should NEVER,EVER have Omega and Anakaris on the same team unless you have Cable, Thanos or SS on that team, for that you'll need two batteries. Omega works well with beam assists as they help him rush his opponent(s) down, or any multi-porpose assist, like Doom and BH AAA. Omega's flaws? None except no proper anti-air and his air super has kinda long startup. Posted by CykoClops on 04:22:2001 04:42 AM: who cares about omega red, just use storm. omega red is tooo SLOW!!! Posted by Clockw0rk on 04:22:2001 08:53 AM: quote: Originally posted by CykoClops who cares about omega red, just use storm. omega red is tooo SLOW!!! Might wanna try reading the thread before you post somethn stupid man -Clockw0rk Posted by dj-b13 on 04:22:2001 09:49 AM: he is a rushdown & a good character...team him up w/ cable & blackheart... learning by poking players is his tactics & crosing players up... All times are GMT. The time now is 01:24 AM. Show all 63 posts from this thread on one page Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.2.4 Copyright © Jelsoft Enterprises Limited 2000, 2001.